Wednesday 10 July 2013

Response to Ena Valikov Comments

Thank you again for responding. I really appreciate when people choose to comment and provide references. If you decide to post again I would appreciate if you make specific criticisms on any studies you disagree with. When you make statements such as “the Hammond studies cited: see if you reach the same conclusions” you are not telling me why their conclusions are invalid. Please be specific in your comments so you can indicate where the authors went wrong.

Now I will address your 2 points:

1)

In regards to the studies conducted by Hammond et al, I have found them to be of high quality and I agree with the conclusions of the authors. I will include a few quotes from these studies to illustrate this point.

(Hammond et al, 2006a)

This quote is found in the conclusion where they indicate that the EFSA (European Food Safety Authority) endorses their results and their conclusions.

“The summary prepared by the GMO Panel of the European Food Safety Authority best captures the prevailing scientific conclusion regarding the findings from this study. EFSA concluded that the results of the 90-day rodent study do not indicate adverse effects from consumption of maize line MON 863 (EFSA, 2004b)”.1

(Hammond et al, 2006b)

Here I will simply include a section from the results where some differences between the control and experimental groups are explained.

“Compositional, contaminant, and nutritional content of the experimental diets met the specifications for Certified Rodent LabDiet 5002 established by PMI. The levels of heavy metals, aflatoxins, and chlorinated and organophosphate insecticides were below detection limits. For chlordane, the analytical limit of detection was higher (250 ppb) than the maximum allowable concentration of 50 ppb, but was not considered to have an impact on the study. PCR analysis confirmed that the test diet contained MON 810 as it tested positive for the Cry1Ab transformation event. The control and reference diets did not test positive for the Cry1Ab transformation event. All of the 400 animals were healthy and appeared normal during the course of the study with the exception of one reference male that had to be sacrificed a few weeks prior to study termination due to injury. There were no changes noted during the duration of the study in behavior, activity, posture, gait, or external appearance that were considered to be test article related (data not shown).

3.1. Body weight and food consumption

Overall, body weight and weight gain were comparable for MON 810, control and reference groups (Figs. 1 and 2). Food consumption was generally similar between MON 810, control, and reference groups throughout the course of the study (Figs. 3 and 4).

3.2. Clinical pathology parameters

Clinical pathology parameters (hematology, blood chemistry, urinalysis) were generally comparable for all groups. There were a few statistically significant differences between the MON 810 and the control groups after 4 weeks and at study termination. None of these differences were considered test article related since they were of small magnitude and within ±2SD of the mean for the population of reference groups, and were either different from the control or the reference group but not both, or were not dose related (observed at the low dose but not at the high dose), and/or occurred after 4 weeks but not at study termination.

3.2.1. Hematology

Results for males and females, measured at study termination (week 13), are contained in Tables 2 and 3, respectively. There were no statistically significant differences between male and female MON 810 groups and the controls and reference groups for most of the parameters measured. There were two statistically significant differences (MCHC, PLT) observed in females that were not dose related and therefore not considered to be test article related.

3.2.2. Serum chemistry

Results for males and females, measured at study termination (week 13), are contained in Tables 4 and 5, respectively. There were no statistically significant differences between male and female MON 810 groups and their control and reference groups for most of the parameters measured. The few statistically significant differences observed were not considered to be test article related as they were of small magnitude and fell within ±2SD of the mean of the reference groups (Hammond et al., 2004b). The slight reduction in A/G (albumin/globulin) ratio for high dose MON 810 males was attributed to the slightly lower albumin and slightly higher globulin levels for MON 810 males, neither of which were individually statistically different from controls. The A/G ratio for MON 810 males also fell within ±2SD of the mean (1.79 ± 0.34) of the reference groups (Hammond et al., 2004b) even though it was slightly, but statistically significantly lower that both the control and reference groups. There were no differences in A/G ratio for females. This finding was not considered to be test article related.

3.2.3. Urine chemistry

There were a few statistically significant differences, but these occurred only in the males at the interim sampling period and none occurred at study termination (data not presented). None of the differences were concluded to be test article related.
3.3. Organ weights

There were no statistically significant differences noted in absolute or relative organ weights between treated and control animals. Table 6 presents organ weight data relative to body weights (absolute organ weights and organ weight relative to brain weight data are not shown).
3.4. Pathology

At necropsy, no gross or microscopic lesions were observed that were considered to be test article related(Table 7). The few spontaneous findings that were observed were generally of minimal to slight/mild severity, were randomly distributed among all groups and were the type commonly observed in control rats of this age and strain.”.2

(Hammond et al, 2004)

In regards to this study I would also like to refer you to the results section. In the results they give explanations of any statistically significant differences between treatment and control groups.

To reiterate my earlier point, if you want to criticize their conclusions you must specifically state what they did wrong.

2)

In regards to the papers produced by Malatesta et al., I would like to refer to the comments of the UK Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes. This is what they had to say about their findings:

“The Committee was invited to consider a series of papers published by Italian researchers which examined the differences between the cells from mice given genetically modified (GM) and non-GM soya. Members were asked to identify any conclusions that could be drawn regarding the safety of GM herbicide-resistant soya.

Members noted that the papers did not state the origin of the GM and non-GM soya used in the feeding studies. There were no details of whether the soya had been grown in a field or under controlled conditions and whether or not the GM and non-GM soya were grown, handled and processed under similar conditions. It was also not clear whether the soya used in the control and GM experiments had a similar genetic background.

The Committee was unable to determine whether or not the GM and non-GM soya crops had been treated with the herbicide glyphosate, although the authors had suggested that differences in residual levels of glyphosate might be responsible for the observed differences.”3

Another paper was written in 2010 that further criticized the Malatesta paper that was written in 2008. They came up with 6 methodological problems that make this study invalid. They are as follows:

‘‘controlling for potential litter effect’’,

‘‘using an appropriate number of experimental animals per group and acquiring a sufficiently robust sample of independent observations’’,

‘‘establishing the representativeness of observations’’,

‘‘adhering to the principles for stereologic morphometry’’,

‘‘using appropriate statistical methods (for study design as well as for data analysis)’’,

‘‘controlling for potential confounding factors, including those related to differences in diet phytoestrogen contents’’.4

Considering all the criticism these studies have received and the obvious flaws they have; they do not indicate that GMO’s have metabolic harm. As you have said “The key to this, though, is to step back and examine the DATA to see if it supports the hypothesis”, I would suggest looking closer at the literature before you cite it in your argument.

Now I would like to address your comments in regards to the length of the triticale studies. I would agree that 90 days may not be long enough to examine all of the potential health impacts. I think that longer studies are needed so that we can truly know what effects GM foods have. I would also like to see a study done in human populations (although the logistics could be a nightmare). As I stated in my blog the most reliable evidence we have says that they are safe, that does not mean that more experiments wouldn't be helpful.

I do have institutional access to the primary literature, I could not comment on these issues without it.

Thank you again for commenting, I appreciate the discussion.

References

1. Hammond, B., Lemen, J., Dudek, R., Ward, D., Jiang, C., Nemeth, M., Burns, J., 2006a. Results of a 90-day safety assurance study with rats fed grain from corn rootworm-protected corn. Food Chem. Toxicol. 44, 147–160.

2. Hammond, B., Dudek, R., Lemen, J., Nemeth, M., 2006b. Results of a 90-day safety assurance study with rats fed grain from corn borer protected corn. Food Chem. Toxicol. 44, 1092–1099.

3. UK Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes, 2006. Committee Paper for Discussion ACNFP/78/7 Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes Ultrastructural Changes in Organs of Mice Fed GM and Non-GM Soya. Available at: <http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/acnfp_78_7_.pdf>. Minutes of the Meeting Held on 20 July 2006, London, UK. Available at: <http://acnfp.food.gov.uk/meetings/acnfpmeet2006/acnfpjul06/acnfpminsjuly2006>.

4. Williams, A.L., DeSesso J.M. 2010. Genetically-modified soybeans. A critical evaluation of studies addressing potential changes associated with ingestion. The Toxicologist. 114, 1, 1154. Annual Meeting of the Society of Toxicology Salt Lake City, Utah March 7–11, 2010.

4 comments:

  1. Hello. Thanks for writing another post dedicated to me--it makes me feel special ;-)
    Sorry, I had a few busy days at the hospital and spent my allotted 1 hr of extracurricular GMO time on Nathanael Johnson's piece on Grist.

    Let start at the beginning, shall we?
    In science the beginning is a look at DATA, unlike what you are doing, which is to post a whole lot of CONCLUSIONS unsupported by any data. Sorry if this sounds blunt, but I am that way.

    Please let me know what you think of Table 1 in 1. Hammond, B., Lemen, J., Dudek, R., Ward, D., Jiang, C., Nemeth, M., Burns, J., 2006a. Results of a 90-day safety assurance study with rats fed grain from corn rootworm-protected corn. Food Chem. Toxicol. 44, 147–160.


    Table 1
    Experimental design
    Groupa Animals/sex State corn
    grown
    Dietary level
    (% w/w)
    1. Control 20 Hawaii 11
    2. Control 20 Hawaii 33
    3. MON 863 20 Hawaii 11
    4. MON 863 20 Hawaii 33
    5. Reference A 20 Illinois 33
    6. Reference B 20 Illinois 33
    7. Reference C 20 Hawaiib 33
    8. Reference D 20 Hawaiib 33
    9. Reference E 20 Hawaiib 33
    10. Reference F 20 Illinois 33
    a Control and reference grain are from conventional varieties that
    are not biotechnology-derived.
    b Grown in the same geographical location, but different from the
    locality where MON 863 and its control were grown.

    Can you give me a good scientific reason to include a control/reference group grown in Illinois and a location in Hawaii where the GMO corn was Not grown, instead of comparing the GMO grown side by side with its isogenic line in the same location in Hawaii?

    Instead of testing 200 experimental rats, and comparing them to 200 controls, there are only 80.
    The only reason I can think of for this experimental design, is that it raises type II error ( reduces sensitivity) to avoid finding adverse effects, which right off the bat makes this a very suspicious and questionable study. Please do let me know what other valid reasons there are for this statistically imbalanced experimental design.

    Thanks.

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  2. There is no need to apologize; this is a debate that will likely continue for a long time.

    To accuse me of providing no data in support of my conclusion is a lie. I have provided an entire review article that supports my position. Between the two of us you are the only one that has not provided any credible data in support of your claims of “metabolic harm”. Instead of making baseless accusations I would encourage you to provide some DATA in support of your position.

    If you are so concerned with the reference group, ignore it and compare the control with the experimental group. The corn for both control and treatment groups was grown in Hawaii. The article also indicates that they were isogenic. If you compare the two groups you will find that three is no data that suggests a significant difference between them. Although a larger sample size would have been nice, 80 rats in each group is still significant.

    It is becoming clear that you are just ignoring the data I have presented because it does not support your hypothesis. You are criticizing Hammond for not having a large enough sample size and yet you reference Malatesta in support of your position. All three of the Malatesta papers only had a sample size of 24 with 12 in each group. That is more than 6 times smaller than Hammond’s sample size. So my question is why you didn’t have the same criticism for those papers? I know exactly why, because you only consider evidence that supports your beliefs. You also seem to have ignored that the Malatesta papers do not indicate if the lines were isogenic, nor do they indicate the conditions in which the soy was grown.

    I have no personal feeling on this issue; all I care about is what the data says. When we began our discussion I thought you were going to present data that I had over looked and if you had I would have considered it. In the end it seems that you are simply looking for evidence in support of your claims instead of looking at what the evidence says before formulating a conclusion.

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  3. Hi Wesley.

    Data is usually made up of numbers, not sentences. I don't see any data in your post, contrary to mine.

    Control group= reference group. There is no difference.

    80= 20/sex/ dose.
    Out of which actual data is reported for less than half: 8-10, and in the RR corn paper by Hammond 4-6 for bilirubin.

    Urinalysis is not published --the precise words are " data not shown" in all the Hammond papers.

    Without a urinalysis renal function can NOT be evaluated-medicine 101. This in a line of rats known to suffer from chronic progressive nephropathy, and I find that egregious.

    In fact, nothing at all can be said about ANY metabolic organs without a baseline and repeat data points to evaluate metabolic trends.

    There are no tests for pancreatitis nor tests of liver function. Liver enzymes reported are not liver function tests, they are tests of inflammation. They say nothing about liver function- a test known as a bile acid test is necessary, and is available for rodents, but is never done.

    The statistics are shit : the study reports means and standard deviations for RANGES rather than a precise number of rats.

    The histopathological findigs reported are : advanced inflammatory kidney disease and inflammatory liver disease.

    Half the rats croaked eating the crap (in 90 days)- otherwise data would have been published for all of them rather than less than half of them; the remainder of the rats suffered from kidney and liver disease.

    These rats would be very easy to pick out visually--they would be drinking excessively and urinating excessively while their kidney blood tests would look just fine. This is because blood tests do not rise until there has been destruction of >75% of nephrons (kidney cells. Some of these rats might have also been jaundiced (a glowing yellow white rat is easy to spot ).

    Being that the experiment was not blinded, it would be exceedingly easy to cherry pick the less affected rats- the ones drinking less, peeing less and not looking yellow.

    So, my conclusions are completely opposite to Monsanto's. The experiment does not in any sense of the word meet the hypothesis articulated in the title--it is not reassuring of safety in any way at all.
    And that is what the actual evidence (data) shows contrary to the author's self serving conclusions not supported by the data.

    Malatesta's work demonstrated alterations in splicing structures, nuclear border changes, her proteomics work showed up regulation of proteins involved in senescence and reversal of the changes on a cross over feeding trial. Thus the RR soybeans look suspiciously hepatotoxic.

    As far as getting the isogenic line, I have yet to see a corporate agreement demonstrating that corporations freely release their seed and the isogenic line ( which only they'd have) to independent researchers. Don't believe it was do-able.

    If you cared about what data shows, I would have expected you to have posted data and to have made honest comments about the data I posted, which you didn't. You brushed off the criticism because there is no legitimate explanation for introduction of random unrelated locales, there is no scientific explanation and justification for comparing corn grown in Hawaii (or Ohio) to corn grown elsewhere and not side by side. It is done to reduce the experimental group making it so trivially small that it becomes impossible to find all but near lethal adverse effects.
    It wouldn't just be nice to have larger sample sizes, it is mandatory.



    The data/ evidence shows one of the junkiest industrial junk science in the world. Data not shown is my name for the entire GMO enterprise which while rich in style is piss poor in substance.



    Take care of yourself. Don't think I'll be back.



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    Replies
    1. I have responded via another post because it was too long.

      http://westheeverydayscientist.blogspot.ca/2013/07/response-to-ena-valikov-comments-2.html

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